Ray Comfort
The word “disappointment” cannot even begin to describe what I felt after reading Ingrid’s report (you can also listen to the podcast here) of the Word of Faith conference that Ray Comfort decided to speak at.
With all due respect, Ray Comfort, Sir, I must say that I am not in agreement with what you did at the conference. More to the point, I was disappointed that you did not do the right thing.
No, not the right thing that we who disagree with you think to be right, but we are specifically instructed in God’s Word to call out false teachers and expose their false teachings.
I’ll be careful to say that I fully believe that the Gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes (Romans 1:6), but this is a different crowd. While there is no doubt that there are many in the audience who do need to hear the Gospel, I believe that most there believe they have heard the Gospel and believed. They can’t be more wrong because they have been misled onto a broad road to destruction by these false teachers and their false teachings.
To use one of your oft-used analogies, these people have put on the parachute knowing that they have to jump out of the plane, but the one they have on is an imitation at best and though from all appearances it looks like a good parachute, it has many flaws and will not open fully. You know this, but chose to remain quiet while seeing them plunge to their deaths when they leave the plane.
Some of these people are so grossly deluded by these false teachings that it is so very important to take every opportunity to call out the false teachers and expose their false teachings using the Word of God! What better opportunity than at a gathering such as that where you were an appointed speaker?
Ray, brother, you had the mic! You could have warned these people of the false teachings and the fleecing that would come before and after you. Are you so stubborn and insensitive to stand by the sidelines and watch while John Avanzini fleece the desperate in the audience with his “talking stones”, not to mention the others with their respective tricks? Does it not occur to you one bit that while you accuse Ingrid of not standing up among the audience to warn that you yourself have the mic and could have done the right thing?
You. Had. The. Mic.
Where’s your righteous anger? Where’s your indignation that such wolves and their false teachings have come to ensnare these poor, desperate people who need to know that our Lord Jesus Christ does not require that from those who love Him?
You know what? I’m more than disappointed; I am angry!
I have the utmost respect for you, brother, for your evangelism ministry, and your radio show has done much for my Christian walk. Unfortunately, on this issue, I’ll have to respectfully say that I disagree with your stand and am disappointed with, and even angered by, your non-action.
For more commentaries on this issue, read:
- No, Ray Comfort The Issue Is Not Closed by Pastor Ken Silva at Apprising Ministries
- Ray Comfort And The Doctrine Of Separation by Daniel Chew at Daniel’s Place
- John Avanzini And His Talking Stones by Ingrid Schlueter at Slice of Laodicea
Similar Posts:
- What Are You Doing, Ray?
- Update From Ray Comfort
- Maybe This Will Put A Rest To The “Ray Comfort Issue”
- Warnings On The Word Of Faith Movement
- A “Fresh Fire” Descending Upon Singapore
Tags: Evangelism, False Teachers, John Avanzini, Ministry, Prosperity, Ray Comfort, Way of the Master Radio, Word of Faith
39 Comments
I’m reminded of this excellent sermon by Jonathan Sims:
http://www.heartcrymissionary.com/download.php?file=03-The-Fear-of-Man.mp3
I was disappointed with him long ago, but I guess it wasn’t time to say anything … I have learned that, when people are not keen to listen, it’s always best to shut up.
Comfort has many comfortable followers, and I guess those with the imitation parachutes are REALLY, TRULY, and COMPLETELY comfortable with Comfort’s comfortable message on being comfortable with that which Comfort had comfortably avoided to give discomfort to.
Hey brother Comfort, as Warren Wiersbe used to say (as in his Be Series of commentaries), Be Comfortable! but again, Wiersbe never wrote such a book, or said such things … heheheheh
Just kidding. Comfortable with that, bro Comfort?
@Vincent Chia -
Oh, the puns…
You’re in the wrong profession, brother!
I’m not sure I would have done any different, honestly. I shared that sermon about the Fear of Man because it applies to me.
So let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. - 1 Cor 10:12
The whole of Romans 2 speaks to me as well, especially the last verse - “whose praise is not of men, but of God.”
I’ve learnt a thing or two from Ray Comfort and his ministry, including Hell’s Best Kept Secret.
He’s admitted he made a mistake, he’s repented and he’s undertaken not to do it again. Mercy triumphs over judgement, I say.
@ahbeng -
While I agree, Beng, I think we can still register our displeasure. I am one who has benefitted from his ministry too and I still support Ray and his ministry.
I’ll listen to that sermon a little later; thanks for pointing to it.
Ray Comforts response was kind of expected, and then pointing the finger to Ingrid was not a good move.
Thing is, I don’t think he’s being truly honest. Somethings just not right.
There is a saying here in Mexico, that goes “Tiene cola que le pisen”, which translates into something like, “He/She has a tail that can be stepped on”. Although that sounds a ridiculous translation, it means that he (in this case) is guilty of something that he’s not admiting to and he knows it.
Ken Silva’s response over at AM was great, and I liked the response over at Puritan Fellowship (http://www.puritanfellowship.com/2008/07/way-jesus-didnt-do-it-ray-comfort-to.html)
I can’t help feel sympathy for Ray Comfort. I hate to write this but, where do you go when you’ve lost the respect of the same christian community that has been so supportive of your ministry after so many years?
@las5solas -
I won’t judge if he was truly being honest or not for nobody can know a man’s heart except God, but I think that conclusion in the email reply to Ingrid was uncalled for.
At the same time, I don’t think anyone’s lost respect for Ray. I know I haven’t. His ministry is still one that is sorely needed in this day and age of cheap conversions and “magic prayer” altar calls.
While all you bloggers are criticizing at your comfortable computers, Ray and his ministry are on Hollywood Blvd, in Glendale, and at Huntington Beach reaching the lost. All you are doing is attacking a man who said he will examine his invitations to speak more closely. A man who preached the Gospel to people who would hear nothing but garbage the next several days, people that are deluded. You character assasins disappoint me.
@Pastorboy -
There’s a clear line between attacking Ray and registering a level of disappointment that he is giving an impression that he approves of these wolves. I’m quite sure all of us here still respect and support Ray’s ministry and even pray for him.
Ray’s work in the field humbles me greatly and is even a role model for me in that respect.
John,
“-You character assasins disappoint me.”
Does that include me? If so, perhaps you might consider how Ray and his people treated Ingrid and Me.
I watched the video of Ray’s message here at Inspiring Excellence conference…, and following (I don’t know who the pastor of this church is) the pastor is on his knees asking God to forgive him and his church. “In the last 35 years, the church of Jesus Christ in America has been so self-indulgent that we’re sick. And the only way to become healthy is for us to embrace the Word of God, like Ray taught us tonight. To ask God to burn out of our lives that which must be burned out. To not sit back in our chairs and say to God, that is good for someone else. It’s me. ..David knew the requirements of the Law. It wasn’t until that prophet put his finger in his face and said, “You are that man. David said I have sinned against the Lord. David was a dead man if I had not completely confessed… are those things when you first came to Christ, are they really your love today? The church is us…pastors are so far into media and how to do a better job…ministers are promising things that have absolutely nothing to do with our mission. Our mission must change now. You cannot live as you have lived. You cannot say, “that was great what Ray said, but go on…the health of our nation rests in the pews of the church. The pulpits have compromised so greatly …people didn’t want to pay the price..now we’re going to pay the price. My prayer is that our nation is given a fresh start, because I fear that we have lost our chance. There are other nations around the world that are holding up the cross of Jesus Christ much higher than us. The church is living in the benefits of the pulpits of years gone by. There are bigger churches now and the spirituality is less than its ever been. I want all of us to get on our knees before God right now…I want to ask God to forgive us, and forgive me.” Have you watched the videos? http://www.winninginlife.org/archives/ie08.htm (The first video)
“I wish to run a rescue mission within a yard of Hell.” C.T.Studd
Good enough to to go Heaven?
http://www.thegoodpersontest.com
http://www.JesusChrist.mypodcast.com
Call me cynical, but I have expected this mess to blow up just the way it did. Now that Comfort has came and gone and heresy is not dealt with, as expected, I have produced this piece here. Disobedience towards the commands of God always reap the bitter fruits of sin and compromise and worse. Is Comfort willing to take responsibility for not warning those deluded people attending the conference that they are being deceived by a false soul-damning ‘gospel’?
Pastor Boy:
I’m really sorry this seems to you like we are enjoying all, and stomping on someone and his ministry. Accusing people of being “comfortable at our computers” is out of line.
We might not be doing it whichever way you do it, or how Ray Comfort suggests we should by buying tracts and the sort, but we all do “something”. Anything, at any opportunity we get.
And this isn’t about a person. It could have been, or is, any of us, in any type of ministry or activity that we might be doing.
Just because Ray Comfort and Living Waters has evangelism ministry coined down, doesn’t mean we aren’t going to examine what’s going on.
Oh, and, another thing,… I’m not mad. I’m concerned.
@Betty -
Thank you for the link, Betty! It will definitely give some of us here a chance to see and hear what Ray preached at the conference.
Betty,
The Word Faith pastors are very good actors. Please don’t fall for it. I can assure you the Lord won’t.
The question should be: Did Robb Thompson renounce the Word Faith teachings that he and his friend John Avanzini, which encourage the very things he’s praying about?
I just finished watching both videos, and what I thought to be so has, unfortunately, been confirmed.
“Accusing people of being ‘comfortable at our computers’ is out of line.”
That was tongue-in-cheek, right? Surely you don’t mean to imply that criticism by you is discernment and criticism of you is mean-spirited? I didn’t think so.
I find it interesting that Comfort knew nothing about the scope of this conference, which he’d been to at least twice before.
And yet the host “pastor” Robb Thompson introduces, “My friend, Ray Comfort.” I’ll say it again, something is not right here.
Billy Edwards:
I didn’t take it as criticism. I’m sorry it read that way.
I base my opinions, as faulty as they are, on the basis of what I’ve read and heard through the reports of Ingrid Schlueter and Ken Silva.
I have no problems with receiving rebuke when it is called for.
It is a blessing to fellowship with people who discern, when I might not have the capacity for it.
If he never does it again, it will show that he is genuinely repentant. In that case, I wholeheartedly agree with you …
I am sorry that you folks that are criticizing Ray Comfort preaching the Gospel at the WOF conference. He seems to have been called by God to do so. He did not seem to be called by God to call out the WOF wolves, which they are. But to automatically assume that the Pastor in prayer at the end of his message was acting? That goes beyond the pale. Something is wrong here! We are now discerning motives~both of Ray and of the kneeling pastor. Only one can do this, who knows the minds and hearts….and it is not the author of this blog nor any other discerning blogs out there. It is Christ Jesus.
My friends, all I was trying to say earlier was that at least the Gospel was proclaimed there, and is being proclaimed tomorrow in Hollywood and Glendale, and Saturday in Huntington Beach. Ray is doing what His master, Jesus has called him to do. It is like when I go into a bar to share my faith. I do not go all Billy Sunday in the bar decrying the sin of alcoholism and liquor. No, I engage people in conversation that I swing to the spiritual. One would get me thrown out of a bar and never asked back, the other gives me free access to a group of people that desperately need the Gospel.
I went into a GLBTA meeting at the college where I like to witness. I did not sit in there and decry the sin of homosexuality~I focussed on the ten commandments and areas we have all fallen short. Though lies have been told to the contrary, I never even addressed homosexuality, but every one in there heard they were sinners in need of a Savior. One would have gotten me thrown not just out of that meeting, but banned from the campus. The other has allowed me to continue to witness on the campus.
Of course WOF is wrong, it is a different Gospel, it is heresy. So is alcoholism. So is homosexuality. All of these examples are examples of lost people who need a Savior. And I do not care about my reputation, if I am given the opportunity I will preach the Gospel to any of these groups. I am glad Ray Comfort agrees.
Please be careful: Ray “seems to have been called by God to” violate His Word. I don’t think so.
And as far as discerning the pastor that is pretty clear. Ray preaches on Tuesday and Ingrid sees that pastor welcoming his good friend John Avenzini’s message of divination Thursday night.
This “repenting” pastor was amening that stuff Ingrid writes about in her Slice post. Let’s stop being so naive.
How is it that he was disobeying the call of God? By evangelizing the unsaved? I just don’t get it. How is this any different than someone (like myself) guest preaching in a church that may not agree line by line with the theology that I agree with. I have done it both ways; I have gone after the theology, and I have focussed on the message. Focussing on the message resulted in changes within the church, even the elder board. Attacking the theology and the method got people mad so they didn’t even hear the message. I could feel a self righteous joy and persecution out of that, but I was just sad that they did not hear the message.
The Gospel is way more resilliant and important. God’s Word does not return empty. These people are unsaved, they never hear the Gospel preached. Now they have. I, for one, am glad.
Erm, guys…
Some indeed even preach Christ because of envy and strife, and some also of good will. Those, indeed, preach Christ out of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds. But these others preach in love, knowing that I am set for the defense of the gospel. What then? Nevertheless, in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached. And I rejoice in this. Yet, also I will rejoice. (Php 1:15-18)
While I do not deny that the Gospel was preached, I am concerned that there was no sounding out of the false teachings. Like I mentioned in my post, preaching the Gospel is indeed good, but from my experience, some in the audience would have thought themselves saved anyhow, yet they are actually following a false gospel taught by a WoF preacher.
I just feel that given such a platform, Ray should have called out the false teachings too. If you have never encountered such folks, read my account here of a blog I stumbled upon and have at one time tried counseling with some brothers.
Man I just hope they invite Paul Washer to preach there one day…
@ahbeng -
PW should come here!
I’ve been tempted to comment regarding on all this, but to be honest, I feel the evidence is clear - Comfort is in the wrong on this one! He had the microphone and a captive audience with which to expose the teachings of such good-for-nothing clouds without rain, such as Robb Thompson, Mike Murdock and John Avanzini.
That is why the doctrine of separation is so practical in this day and age. We shouldn’t associate with those who do knowingly do damage to the cause of the Gospel.
John,
You and I are friends. So I politely say that you aren’t getting it because you have phrased this incorrectly: “How is it that he was disobeying the call of God? By evangelizing the unsaved?” God did not “call” Ray to go to that conference as one of the people to be on that Word Faith platform.
We know this because 1) He was unequally yoked in a public religious event with unbelievers thereby giving people the idea he was in agreement with them. Appearance of evil. And 2) We can now see that Ray did not rebuke their false Gospel. If God had truly sent him there Ray would have been compelled by the Spirit to do so. Clearly he wasn’t.
“How is this any different than someone (like myself) guest preaching in a church that may not agree line by line with the theology that I agree with. I have done it both ways; I have gone after the theology, and I have focussed on the message.”
If I had been asked to go I would have said to them upfront: Yes, I will come speak under a couple of conditions. 1) I want full assurance that I will not be censored in any way. And 2) I want it clearly stated in the advertising that I am coming here as a counter-point to your view of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
I’m glad you did the above but my brother please put personal feelings aside and really look here. Ray absolutely did not do what you say you did above, you must at least see that.
“Focussing on the message resulted in changes within the church, even the elder board. Attacking the theology and the method got people mad so they didn’t even hear the message. I could feel a self righteous joy and persecution out of that, but I was just sad that they did not hear the message.”
Please know I am saying this in a gentle manner (just don’t tell anyone I’m not really an unfeeling cyborg), if you struggled with self-righteousness it doesn’t mean every Christian would under said circumstances. And how do you know they didn’t hear the message? How do you know they weren’t irritated by God in order that they might go home and search the Scriptures?
John the Baptist certainly didn’t worry about what he says in the inspired Word of God where in Luke 3 he sternly rebukes the crowd as it comes to see him. John, I’m guessing that could have made them “mad.” And in Acts 15:1-2 Paul vigously attacked the theology of the Judaizers and since the Bible says there was no small disputation we have reason to think that they got “mad.”
“The Gospel is way more resilliant and important. God’s Word does not return empty. These people are unsaved, they never hear the Gospel preached. Now they have. I, for one, am glad.”
Finally, your personal feelings aside; how do you know that the Lord hasn’t already judged these men as those who have had their consciences seared as with a hot iron? How do you know that God wasn’t allowing these people to come under His judgement ala 2 Timothy 4:3-4 for being willing to follow these teachers who tell them what they want to hear?
So which of us John, you or me, is going by what the Scriptures say? Which of us is really trusting the sovereignty of God here? Ray would have sent a much better message to these Word Faith wolves by dropping himself from that conference and then telling them exactly why. And I offer that then God would have mightily empowered Ray’s open air message, which he sloughed off onto Ingrid, if he had done his WOTM out in the field.
No John, please don’t let your emotions get in the way. Ray and WOTM has personally offended me by what they have said about me personally and they have not asked my forgiveness nor have they repented. Ray was in violation of the Word of God and I am sad to say that in the Spirit I feel this situation is going to backfire on him. But may the Lord intervene and bring a resolve to this issue that WOTM may prosper.
Ken,
All I have to say is that we must disagree on this one. I do have personal feelings for Ray, I feel like I have a little more personal knowledge of the man, I have seen him approach all types of people with a passion of heart that would make him do things that others might question.
Your passion of heart, indeed your gift, is to discern, and some look at that and say ‘Ken is a bully, he is offensive, he is arrogant, etc. I know that you are so passionate that this type of frequent commentary rolls off your back, because you are convinced of the Spirit that this is what you are called to do.
I only plead for the same grace for Ray, who is passionate, convinced, and gifted to Evangelize the pagan as well as the preacher.
This matter is closed for me, I can say no more than what I have posted at http://www.thedowngrade2007.blogspot.com in several articles about this. I pray that this can simply be marked sown as something we disagree on, and we can remain brothers in Christ fighting for the cause of Christ in this world of heresy and lies.
John,
Huh?! You mean I have a critic somewhere.
My brother, as far as I’m concerned we have simply been a couple of family members having a spirited conversation about an issue we disagree on. I’d say that’s a healthy family.
And as far as “I only plead for the same grace for Ray, who is passionate, convinced, and gifted to Evangelize the pagan as well as the preacher.” Me too.
Referring to that video, which Betty talks about above, I see a man praying in the flesh. Rob Thompson is a pastor who seems to be ignorant of the fact that a genuine believer is a new creation in Jesus Christ. (2Co 5:17; Eph 2:10, Eph 4:24; Col 3:10,Col 3:11; Rev 21:5)
Why plead continually for so-called saved people (himself included) to be made new? And then why does he (Thompson) permit men like John Avanzini to enter the pulpit of his (Thompson’s) church and preach heresies after so making such a show of repentance? I have to conclude that Rob Thompson is a phony, which leads me to wonder why Ray Comfort keeps going back there. Doesn’t Ray know the difference between phony and genuine contrition?
@REB -
Thank you for visiting my blog and sharing your thoughts, brother. You made a very, very good point re: the prayer, and the obvious dissonance between his prayer and his actions.
We are not to judge his motives and his heart when that prayer was uttered, but we shall see from his fruits if he was indeed sincere.
I just happened to come across this article while doing a google search for “the lost that think they are found unconverted”. It just so happens to be written by Ray Comfort and was published on his Living Water Ministries website under the name “The Satanic Influence”, apparently sometime in 2004. Given all the current controversy, I thought it was pretty interesting some of the things that he had to say–I have bolded a section I thought was of particular interest, and added some comments afterward where I think Ray is mistaken. It is a good article, and well worth the read but I think there is one major point in his argument with which I have disagreement.
http://simplemann.net/?p=90
Ray offers a lot of insight and I think he is right-on in his analysis of the selfishness and sinfulness that still dwells inside the heart of many self-professed “believers” (as well as their self-deceived “ministers”) and it would seem that Ray is addressing specifically the rock-rubbing masses of the Wolves of Faith conferences Ray has been going to speak at these last three years since he wrote the article. But the fact that all these people came back after Ray spoke to buy their money rocks, buy into the ludicrous scheme of Satan Avanzini called “Reverse Entrapment”, and kept coming to hear more apostasy and heresy *without* booing Ray off the stage seems to indicate to me that maybe just hearing how the Ten Commandments reveals your need for Jesus isn’t completely effective for reaching the “lost who think they are found”.
The problem, as Ray correctly pointed out in this article, is that our churches are filled with “unconverted Christians” if such an oxymoronic term may be used. They think they’re already saved, so just going through the basic Way of the Master routine (have you ever told a lie, have you ever stolen anything, have you had nasty thoughts about another person, etc.) is NOT going to confront them with their sin. They’ve never made it past the first two commandments, but in their corrupt state of mind and soul, they think they are children of the Living God while they are yet offspring of their father, the devil. In fact, I would actually say there is great danger in Ray standing before these people and teaching them how to go an “win souls” by using the Way of the Master “Ten Commandment” formula to convince people they need God and then invite them to churches that worship the mighty dollar, the self, the sin. Convincing someone they have a need and the offering them a counterfeit Christ is like telling someone they will die without water and then giving them arsenic to quench their thirst. Unless the root of their sin–and those who water it–are exposed and brought into the Light, the tree will remain bad and the fruit along with it. And in that day of Judgment both will be cast into the lake of fire.
I think it is far better and more hopeful to be lost but know you are lost, than to be lost and think you are found.
Peace & Blessings,
Simple Mann
Wow. Well said Simple Mann.
Brother, that’s truth! I believe the same thing, when I pointed out in my post that, to use the analogy oft-used by Ray Comfort, these people have faulty parachutes.
Thank you for visiting and sharing your thoughts on this.
Shalom!
Isaiah - I thought you would probably enjoy this. I have been reading Pilgrim’s Progress the last few days and I read a piece today that reminded me so much of the clamor surrounding the Comfort in the Wolves Den controversy that I could not resist posting it here for your (or my) amusement.
I think it may read better if you think of these parts being played by the likes of:
BY-ENDS: Ray Comfort
MR. MONEY-LOVE: Joe Avanzini (or any other Wolf of Faith actor will do)
MR. SAVE-ALL: Oh, pick your favorite blog-posting Ray defender here
CHRISTIAN and HOPEFUL: I kind of like Ingrid Schleuter or Ken Silva for these parts
(Read the snippet on my blog - it would take up a lot of space to post it here):
http://simplemann.net/?p=108
@Simple Mann -
Shalom, brother!
Thank you for dropping by and letting me know; I’ll definitely go read it.