One fine Sunday morning, at a well-known WoF church in Singapore…
My apologies about the quality, I recorded it off the streaming video of the service.
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Tags: City Harvest Church, Fleecing, Tithing, Word of Faith
27 Comments
I believe tithings and offerings are very important and biblical, however we should tithe for the first 2 reasons alone. Tithing does not keep us focused and trusting in God, it should be as a result of it! And it’s definitely not going to fight inflation or poverty or demonic oppression!!!
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Matthew 23:23
At the beginning, I thought it was Prince with his nonsense again. But City Harvest? [Sorry, haven't heard Kong Hee preached before, only Prince]. I thought CHC was more focused on the tongue/power/healing part more than the money part… guess I was wrong.
are there demons that cause humans to be poor? Demons of poverty? Sounds like the chinese ‘dao mei gui’ to me. Is it blibical?
Demons of poverty?
Erm, excuse me…
The LORD causes poverty and grants wealth. He humbles people; he also promotes them.
(1Sa 2:7)
Listen, my dear brothers and sisters! Didn’t God choose poor people in the world to become rich in faith and to receive the kingdom that he promised to those who love him?
(Jas 2:5)
@Gold & Silver Coins -
Thank you for visiting and sharing your thoughts. I have nothing against tithes and offerings too though it is not necessary for us to tithe under the new covenant.
You hit the issue well on the head.
@Daniel Chew -
That wasn’t Kong Hee but one of the junior pastors, the name of whom I didn’t manage to catch.
Oh, they are very concerned about money; from what I heard and have verified, cell group leaders do make notes of who has given and who hasn’t and constantly remind the errant ones to keep to their pledges. They also have to give during cell group meetings.
@lee -
There’s no Biblical basis for those, brother. They’re the inventions of these WoF preachers.
@ahbeng -
AMEN! Our wealth is in Christ Jesus, who gives life abundantly to those who believe and trust in Him.
@Isaiah -
Arghhhh…………. what kind of cell meeting is this?! A cell meeting is meant to be one for edification, not extortion…. [shudders]
Thanks for the compliment Isaiah. I come from Cornerstone which is a fairly centered church. Lemme share with you a personal testimony about tithing.
I have been sharing with my girlfriend over many months about the importance of tithing especially since it is The Lord himself said in Matthew 23:23 …these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Also I shared that it is a test of our obedience & faith, and whether we serve God or Mammon (Proverbs 3:9). And that Abraham himself tithed to Melchizedek as an act of worship to God.
Last month however, Pastor Yang’s 80 year old mentor Dr. Brian Bailey shared with us in a seperate service about his revelations of Hell. And one of the shockers was that there are sinners in Hell with their sins written on placards “I did not tithe.”
It came as a shocker to many. He went on to explain that without our tithes, the Gospel is hindered from being preached to the Nations as many evangelists are supported by our tithes. It made sense. After all if we do not evangelise and do not tithe, we do not fulfil the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19-20) but we in fact hinder it!
I only ask that you pray and seek God’s direction about it. I know that we are not told to tithe under the New Covenant, but we ARE to be generous towards God. And the tithe (or call it what you will, offering or thanksgiving) is the smallest that we should give to God, not out of compulsion, but willingly and cheerfully, and to fulfil His purposes here on Earth.
God bless you!
Let me first state that it is right for Christians to bring our tithes and offerings to the Lord’s house to further the work of His kingdom and help the needy saints as well as the poor.
However, the message emphasis and tone of the CHC sermon is appalling. It really sounds more like a medicine man peddling his wares on the roadside, doing his marketing of benefits (divine blessings) and then throwing in a bit of hard selling and then going for the kill.
It is the Prosperity Gospel: God wants you to be rich, put your faith in God, you can’t go wrong on your finances.
Below is what Senior Pastor Kong Hee also also preached……………
“There is always this question: How can I be rich ? There is only so many rich people in the world, right ? If I am rich, then somebody else have to be poor. Because the only way for me to climb up the ladder of success is that I step over someone else. So in the mindset of shortage and scacity, not everybody can be rich. There is only one piece of cake to go around for everybody. And you have this piece is one piece less for everybody. So if you are rich, I am going to be poor. It is a zero sum thing. Alright, there is not enough wealth to go around for everybody. And Christians, can you hear me well tonight ? Christians with scarcity thinking really have a crisis of faith. Do you really believe in the Bible ? Do you really believe in the God of Abundance ? The God whose name is El Shaddai. The God of More Than Enough.”
Source: CHC Senior Pastor preaching a sermon seen on YouTube.
Absolutely Isaiah.
It’s the message of “you should tithe so that God will bless you”. I mean come on!!! You’re (the WoF preachers) entrapping people just as if you were a Pharisee!!!
However, I know there are those who DON’T give at all and say, It’s NOT required. And that is wrong too.
All in all, we need a balance and to draw near to hear what God has to say about it. I remember one Godly pastor shared that we are given seed for 2 purposes only… seed for sowing (tithes & offerings) & to make bread for eating. May we be faithful stewards of His house.
2 Corinthians 9:10 Now He that ministereth (supplies) seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;)
God be forever praised.
@Gold & Silver Coins -
I am not so sure about the placards in hell, its too much of an assumption made and isn’t in the Bible; but it is true that we need to give. Some believe that corporate giving through the church is the way to go, while some prefer to give separately to ministries and directly to charities. I’m with the second group.
That’s not to say I didn’t give offerings while I attended church (I’m out looking for a new home but that’s a new, long story), but whether to tithe or not is up to the individual.
It is a rather delicate balance — some say that if you support the church then you must support all ministries the church supports and you achieve this only when you tithe. I’d say it depends.
Ultimately, it depends on the conscience of the giver. Give what you are able to. Some give but don’t bother to even offer up a prayer or two for the ministries, while some give but never volunteer to help out at any of the ministries. What then? Giving money without deeds isn’t my idea of true giving, but that’s just me.
Above all, on the individual level we are to care for the poor, the destitute and the helpless widows. Action speaks louder than mere coins and dollar notes in the offering bucket.
With regards to giving and how much to give, John MacArthur had a very good sermon that addressed this issue. I once posted it and you can read it here.
Just my 2 cents.
@Thy Word is Truth -
I saw that sermon/speech once as well… appalling! The worse problem is that there are some out there who believe such nonsense and have taken their teachings online on their blogs and teaching others the same heresy.
I’m not going to link to the blogs here, but I’ll just say that a few brothers and I have tried counseling that misguided person but to no avail; he won’t listen but attacked us as legalistic Pharisees who don’t want the blessings of God.
Thank you for sharing!
Shalom.
I think there are two extremes we need to avoid.
We need to avoid glorifying poverty in the way that certain Catholic orders do, because it does not glorify God. Our God is a good God, and the cattle on a thousand hills belong to Him (Psalm 50:10), and David says he has not seen the righteous forsaken or his seed begging bread (Psalm 37:25).
Neither should we glorify prosperity and make it contingent on our giving. Whatever blessings we receive come from God’s goodness, and not anything we have done (Deut 8:10). Remember again that the cattle on a thousand hills belong to Him, and He needs nothing from us, neither is He glorified if we give Him anything with an ulterior motive. And when He does bless us, we should not forget Him (Deut 8:11-18).
My prayer has always been that of Prov 30:7-9 - Make me neither too rich nor too poor.
As for tithing, I agree with Isaiah. It is not a REQUIREMENT under the New Covenant. Nothing is, except to love God and man. BUT under the New Covenant, because God has changed our hearts, we will freely and willingly give more than a tenth, “for God loves a cheerful giver”.
The placards in hell thing is a little amusing. Reminds me of Dante, or maybe Haw Par Villa. I believe most placards will read: “Did not believe in Jesus.”
Folks,
Let’s get this over and done with: tithing is not a New Covenant thing. The apostle paul would have your hide for trying to impose tithing on any believer. Just read through what he had to say when some folks attempted to impose circumcision on the Galatian believers.
Anyone holding on to the tithe is standing on very shaky ground, for it is written:
There is no difference between holding on to circumcision and holding on to tithing.
“Gold and Silver Coins” quoted Matthew 23:23 above as grounds for tithing. But that is a mis-application of Scriptures. Jesus was speaking to Pharisees in a time the Law was still in effect. Of course, they were obligated to pay the tithe.
We are not Pharisees (not even Jews), and we certainly do not live under the Law.
I did two articles recently on this in which I trashed the subject conclusively. If anyone’s interested in a fool’s writings, please check out my articles:
1. Believers are not subject to the Tithe
2. The Trial of Pastor Enoch
Read them with your Bible in hand, and throw away this tithe thing. It was nailed to the Cross. Its bad taste to unpin it.
My Oh My , I think everyone has said what they believe here to be the fact, let me state mine here for you…. Isaiah I am in total agreement with
Gold and Silver Coins
Ahbeng
infact they have said all I have to say for this topic. except the Lord places something new in my heart then I will return to this post. anybody that doesnt want to pay their tithes to God should continue doing so only God will judge our intents later on
TITHING IS A SERIOUS MATTER , IT IS GODS MONEY!!! BUT CHURCHES/PASTORS ARE ABUSING IT.
Godbless you Brothers
John MacArthur has a clear answer on tithe and offering /giving to God that might be helpful to give a sound biblical perspective on this matter.
http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/IA-tithe.htm
The following “Question” was asked of John MacArthur Jr., the pastor of Grace Community Church, Sun Valley, California. Copyright 2001 by John MacArthur Jr., All Rights Reserved.
Question
Does God require me to give a tithe of all I earn?
Answer
Two kinds of giving are taught consistently throughout Scripture: giving to the government (always compulsory), and giving to God (always voluntary).
The issue has been greatly confused, however, by some who misunderstand the nature of the Old Testament tithes. Tithes were not primarily gifts to God, but taxes for funding the national budget in Israel.
Because Israel was a theocracy, the Levitical priests acted as the civil government. So the Levite’s tithe (Leviticus 27:30-33) was a precursor to today’s income tax, as was a second annual tithe required by God to fund a national festival (Deuteronomy 14:22-29). Smaller taxes were also imposed on the people by the law (Leviticus 19:9-10; Exodus 23:10-11). So the total giving required of the Israelites was not 10 percent, but well over 20 percent. All that money was used to operate the nation.
All giving apart from that required to run the government was purely voluntary (cf. Exodus 25:2; 1 Chronicles 29:9). Each person gave whatever was in his heart to give; no percentage or amount was specified.
New Testament believers are never commanded to tithe. Matthew 22:15-22 and Romans 13:1-7 tell us about the only required giving in the church age, which is the paying of taxes to the government. Interestingly enough, we in America presently pay between 20 and 30 percent of our income to the government–a figure very similar to the requirement under the theocracy of Israel.
The guideline for our giving to God and His work is found in 2 Corinthians 9:6-7: “Now this I say, he who sows sparingly shall also reap sparingly; and he who sows bountifully shall also reap bountifully. Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver.”
Isaiah. I forgot to add that I so agree with Thy word is Truth good example he/she gave
Godblss
Wow, since when did a sermon from a propserity “gospel” church becomes an issue about tithing?
I find it very interesting when you have Dispensational & New Covenental Theology views on this topic represented here. For those who are seventh-day Sabbatarians, to be consistent, they need to embrace the idea that tithing is still valid and compulsory since nowhere is the command to tithe rescinded in the New Testament or even the entire Scriptures.
MacArthur’s answer here is in error since it was not the Levites who governed Israel. Back during the time of Moses, who function as a prophet and ruler of Israel, Aaron and his sons function as the priests, and it was to them (not to Moses) that the tithe was to be given to. During the times of Joshua and then the judges, none of them were Levites either (with the possible exception of Samuel), and we do not need to talk about the times of the Kings. So the tithe never functioned as “income tax” in ancient Israel. Rather, they are meant to be given to support God’s appointed priests and thus ministers as they serve God full-time.
reaction on above,
The situation is a bit more muddled than written above, for several times in chronicles it is written that the Levites were charged with justice (Law, Judging) (2 chronicles 19) or guarding and administering the treasury of the house of the lord, which doubled as a national treasury too.
Furthermore the Levites were supposed to be teachers of the law.
So now we have a judicial, an administrative, a financial, and an educational task. Of course all related to the Temple, the Torah and to the Lord, but remember, there was no such thing as separation of church and state, nor was it seen as preferable.
Of course not all administrators were levites, nor were all levites administrators, but they were an important group within the national administration.
Well said, brother!
Don’t ask me.
As for the second point, I’ll add that to my study and address it in posts on the Sabbath (preparing them in the next few days or so, time permitting).
The idea that tithing is still valid and compulsory since nowhere is the command to tithe rescinded in the New Testament or even the entire Scriptures is a highly problematic one.
Fully pursued to a logical conclusion, what we end up with are thousands of commands under the Law of Moses that have nowhere been rescinded in the NT. This includes commands about clothing, where to poo, what to do with witches and false prophets, washing of hands, etc. And by implication, the believer would still be subject to them.
God forbid.
A discussion on pimping/fleecing can easilly degenerate into a discussion on tithes IF part of the arguments of the pimp is that believers must tithe - for Scriptures place no such burden on believers. Its as much a lie as Paula White telling people to bring a Day of Atonement offering so as to tap into God’s blessings.
And I agree. What I was using is the technique of Reductio Ad Absurdum to show that the seventh-day Sabbatarian reasoning of “Nowhere is the Sabbath command ever rescinded in the New Covenant” would logically leads to compulsory 10% tithing and sundry laws, if the person is to be consistent. Therefore, seventh day Sabbatarians MUST teach compulsory 10% tithing, otherwise they have no exegetical reason to continue their keeping of the seventh-day Sabbath either.
Isaiah bro, sorry for harping on this topic again and again. But it is a serious one.
Daniel,
Well said. And yes; it is a very much serious matter. It isn’t as trivial as it may appear to be.
God bless you, Isaiah. No intention to ruin the topic under discussion. I let it rest at this point.
@Yomi Adegboye -
Thank you, Yomi, that’s much appreciated. I’ll make my conclusions known soon.
God bless you too, brother.