A brother calling himself “Lee” left a comment in response to my testimony on the blog, urging me to “focus on love” and not to “bring division” with my previous posts on teachings at City Harvest Church.
Now, I am going to reproduce the comment here with my response, because I will be deleting it. Not because it’s any form of censorship or whatever, but that comment is inappropriate as a response to my testimony. I don’t blame Lee, though, as I gathered he couldn’t figure where it would be best to leave such a comment as there aren’t such posts on this new blog (yet).
Lee said:
Hello brother,
I have seen your comments about City harvest church are mostly negative. I attend City Harvest. I agree that they violate the commandments on tongues the other issues. However, we are all servants of the lord Jesus Christ. We should approach this issue with love and not broadcasting it on the internet where unbelievers will scorn at our differences though we worship the same god. Even the faith of those attending city harvest may be shaken because of your blog. Are you then committing a even greater sin by causing confusion and instability among brothers giving the devil a foothold to lead our brothers astray? Our lord has told us there is no greater commandment than loving God with all your heart and loving your neighbor as yourself. From what i can see, brothers in the church love one another and jesus even more.
Confusion in doctrine but with love, we will still find each other. But if your doctrine is crystal clear but your heart is not, we may not find each other. Instead of accusing one another of breaking commandments, lets pray for them for we are 1 body of christ. Any attempt to bring diversity among brothers is not what Jesus will want and what the apostle Paul and Timothy are trying to teach us. Lets us focus on love and pray for one another for understanding and wisdom. If you agree with me, you may consider removing your articles online. Thanks XD
First off, thank you for visiting my blog, brother.
Brother, I’d like to ask you this one question: since you attend services at CHC and you disagree with what they teach on tongues and the other issues that I have brought up in my posts previously, have you approached the pastor to voice your concerns?
Contrary to what some might believe, pastors are not infallible, and their teachings are also open to scrutiny. I think there’s a dangerous tendency nowadays to take the words of pastors and teachers as truth and some churches have even gone as far as to declare that challenging the pastor on issues is tantamount to rebellion.
Can you say ‘cult’?
Pastors are no more anointed than you or I. As born-again Christians, we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us to guide and instruct if we only listen. In addition, pastor-ship is a role, not an office. It’s different from, say, the position of a CEO. That said, I hope you are not banging on my door asking me to remove my post without first considering if you, who also disagree with those teachings, have approached the pastor to make your case known.
Secondly, you mentioned that I am shaking the faith of some in the congregation. My question then is: faith in whom? The pastor? Or God? Assuming that you are talking about faith in God, then I am flabbergasted to find out that pointing out truth in the Bible as opposed to the falsehoods in the teachings will shake someone’s faith.
If someone comes along and claims himself to be Jesus Christ, and we point out that that person isn’t, and that our Lord has yet to return, will that shake that someone’s faith? The answer is a plain “no”. All I am doing is pointing out that those attending City Harvest, or any other church for that matter, to be Bereans and search the Scripture for themselves even if they know, trust and love the pastor.
All this brings me back to my first point — that more often than not, there’s a dangerous tendency today for most Christians to just take the words of a leader without searching the Scripture themselves to see if what is taught is scriptural.
On your point that the devil will gain a foothold because of the ‘division’ caused, let me say that the devil gets a foothold when a church starts compromising on truths and accepts half-truths or even complete lies, not when an exhortation goes out to fellow Christians to be Bereans and return to what is Biblical!
It is very well that you mentioned that we should love God and our neighbors as ourselves. Let me put this across to you then: if you love your neighbor as yourself, does that equate keeping quiet when you see that neighbor running across the road where an oncoming truck will hit him if he does not stop?
What’s your definition of love?
Lastly, I am afraid that I’ll have to disappoint you and say that I am certainly not removing those articles. The warnings will stay, and so does the exhortation to my brethren and sisters at City Harvest to search the Scriptures for themselves. Mind you, I am not referring to just City Harvest, but churches all over the world when I say that we are living in a time when there shall come many false teachers (even more than before) to lead the flock astray. We already see it happening, and it shouldn’t surprise anyone of us as Christ Jesus said there’ll be a great falling away before He returns.
It is therefore imperative that we who are called to be watchmen and contending for the faith sound the appropriate warnings when we read or hear of false teachings that shall lead many down the broad road of destruction.
Please don’t think I enjoy doing this. To be brutally honest, it pains me to have to point these things out because I usually get more brickbats and hate emails than anything else for doing so. Yet I do this because (and may the Lord judge my heart on this) our Lord Jesus Christ deserves all the honor and glory due to Him for His sacrifice.
Soli deo Gloria!
Tags: Bereans, City Harvest Church, Love, Watchmen
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Isaiah,
You are very unkind and unloving and highly judgemental….(I always wanted to say that) :))
How is warning someone of danger unloving? You keep up being the unloving person you are Isaiah! There is a crown in heaven awaiting you for being so unloving my Brother!
Keep up the great work!
Phil
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My good brother Phil!
I have no idea, brother, no idea at all. The word “love” in Christian circles has gone to one extreme where people can no longer bear correction nor the doctrines of hell. In fact, some have said that if these people were to have their way, they’d only want a Bible that just has John 3:16 in it!
Thank you for your encouragement! You and I know very well how tedious this watchman business is, but we need to labor on for His glory alone!
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I don’t think it’s wrong to point out errors on the part of a sermon - it certainly is a sin of omission to not do so.
Furthermore, even pastors are fallible, them being human and all.
Even among those immortalised in Hebrews 11, the faithful ones - every one of them, being human, have fallen in their walk with God… well perhaps not Enoch, but what is he? One out of how many billion people? Anyway, I just want to affirm your courage to be a watchman. It is tedious business, but it is necessary for the Church in this last days. May God bless you in your undertaking.
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“I think there’s a dangerous tendency nowadays to take the words of pastors and teachers as truth and some churches have even gone as far as to declare that challenging the pastor on issues is tantamount to rebellion.” - Isaiah
Dear brother,
Your quote seems to describe almost every church I have been too … even “orthodox” and “conservative” ones. I have yet to meet a pastor who thinks otherwise. I was asked to step down (and I agreed completely with this decision) from church leadership as a nominated church officer when I confessed to disagreeing with some points of doctrine. I was banned from all teaching engagements. That is why I have to leave - I believe there is no point in staying when I cannot exercise my spiritual gifts. I was told to play the piano instead.
This is what happen when you disagree with the “session” or leadership. You get silenced.
Your post hit the bull’s eye, or rather, the devil’s eye.
Love is defined this way: agree with all points of view and dare you protest! If you open your gap, you are being schismatic and divisive and unloving. How dare you think? Don’t you dare to even think. Just follow the law. We want your attendance, but not your brain.
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Hey there, Isaiah.
I find this person’s comment a bit offensive. And, if you really did cut and paste the words he typed as he typed them… I am a bit dismayed that he writes ‘god,’ ‘lord’ and ‘jesus’ as such… It may not matter with many, but seriously, I cannot write the name of GOD in what we know to be a common way. Perhaps petty, but that’s just me.
It’s like he’s some PR person kindly asking you to shut up — vulgar, but that’s how it comes across to me.
And the whole bit ‘we will still find each other’ and about not criticizing members of the ‘1 body’… Mr. Lee, please read this concerning members of the body in relation to members of The Body:
Matthew 5:
29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.Although Christ Jesus was addressing a personal way of living, it is the same approach that HE will take cleansing the body.
How can you ignore someone’s sin if they keep doing it even after being corrected (i.e., shown what the Word of GOD says about it)…
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Vincent:
Is that part of the reason for your departure? I haven’t emailed you as I know you are in the midst of an examination.
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LaVrai:
That’s indeed how he wrote it — I always reproduce any comments I have opinion on ad verbatim so that the essence of the original is kept. I believe that’s a form of integrity.
Now that you mention it, he does sound like a PR person… hmm…
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Isaiah,
Yes, that’s part of the reason. Email me when you want to talk about it … :-h
I just discovered (from ready your wife’s testimony) that you are at Life. I know Calvin and Mark. Good brothers in Christ. Preacher Calvin is in the same NS unit as me
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I’m no longer at Life B-P, because it’s a little too far now since Calvary Jurong is just 2 bus stops down and Calvary Pandan is a short bus ride away. I’ve been thinking about going to the latter for awhile now though.
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Isaiah,
Either way, Rev Quek is an excellent preacher. Whether I agree with all of his preaching is another matter … but what I like is his emphasis on holy living - personal holiness and consecrated lives. Pandan is a good church. It’s a pity I do not agree with some BP distinctives.
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Vincent,
One of the things I don’t agree with is infant baptism, but in my opinion, the B-P church is still one of few Biblical congregations left in Singapore.
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I completely agree with what you said about pastors! It took me quite a while in my Christian walk to realise that! (:
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Dear Daniel,
I am visiting … but I will not be attending the bible studies until after my exams. Right now, I need to find time to do my basic duties like daily ablutions(!).
BTW, I can’t decide until I have visited other churches as well - but I will need to think up some. /:)
As Isaiah has rightly commented, there are “few Biblical congregations left in Singapore.”
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Hello brother Isaiah,
Thank you for your reply to my comments. I agree with you that Pastors are not infalliable and their doctrine on tongues and other spiritual ‘Gifts’ are not all biblical. I have prayed for wisdom and understanding in regards to this matter. I have actually thought of leaving the church even. But i think God have allowed me to understand that :
1. Theres no perfect church, perfect pastors and members. Going to church is to worship God, and not to seek the best and accurate doctrine preaching pastors. Paul has mentioned about it is not right to say “i follow Paul” and some say “i follow Apollos” because we all are 1 body. We all follow Jesus.
2. As servants, should we point fingers and accuse another servant of their wrong doings? Will Jesus not judge and punish the wicked ones and reward those that have been faithful at the end? It is not our duty to do that.
3. To help the Charismatic brothers, we should first pray for them so that they can will have understanding. Posting these issues online, do you think its the best method where unbelievers will laugh at our differences? Maybe we can come up with another method by seeking God first? Because i truly belief putting up all our differences online for all to see and is really inappropriate.
Yea thats about all i will like to say actually. I am just writing as a brother, not PR as someone commented.
Im also not asking you to shut up. I just disagree that to your method used which i feel will bring diversity to the body since we all are indeed saved by the grace of God. This is a difficult issue. Criticism is a form of love, only if it is constructive. If a brother loses his faith, it will surely be a sin. Eg. the bible mention abt the eating of unclean food sacrificed to the idols. If your knowledge causes a brother to stumble, it is a sin, even though you are right in doctrine. -
Vincent:
I checked out the website of the church and I just might pay a visit one day. Thanks for the invite!
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Denise:
It took me a while too, and I think it’s an issue that most Christians need to come to realize before their “loyalty” blinds them to the truth in God’s Word.
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The prosperity gospel that city harvest and new creation preaches are completely blasphemous and will only serve to lead more and more people away from the tradition and history of the christian church.
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@lee -
This is a difficult issue. Criticism is a form of love, only if it is constructive. If a brother loses his faith, it will surely be a sin. Eg. the bible mention abt the eating of unclean food sacrificed to the idols. If your knowledge causes a brother to stumble, it is a sin, even though you are right in doctrine.
Indeed it is a difficult issue and while, as you state care should be taken not to offend others in such a way that they fall from faith, there is also a different kind of care that should be taken:
Ezekiel 3: (it is a bit long, but well worth the reading, WEB translation)16 It happened at the end of seven days, that the word of Yahweh came to me, saying, 17 Son of man, I have made you a watchman to the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. 18 When I tell the wicked, You shall surely die; and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at your hand. 19 Yet if you warn the wicked, and he doesn’t turn from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul. 20 Again, when a righteous man does turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die: because you have not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteous deeds which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at your hand. 21 Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man, that the righteous not sin, and he does not sin, he shall surely live, because he took warning; and you have delivered your soul.
This in itself is a warning that applies especially to ezekiel, as he get a direct word from God. It does however also apply to us as we have “Mozes and the Prophets (see luke 16 below)” and therefore the Lord has spoken to us.
The whole trick is to reprimand (hmm word, “vermaan” is the one in my language) in love when a brother errs.Luke 16
25 “But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that you, in your lifetime, received your good things, and Lazarus, in like manner, bad things. But now here he is comforted and you are in anguish. 26 Besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that those who want to pass from here to you are not able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’
27 “He said, ‘I ask you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house; 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, so they won’t also come into this place of torment.’
29 “But Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.’
30 “He said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they don’t listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if one rises from the dead.’ -
Hey guys, thanks for your message. Ekeziel 3 is indeed a good scripture to counter my argument. I have also come to realise that having false unity with brothers but giving up on true and pure doctrine should NOT be the way. We should not head backwards spiritually again after breaking free from roman catholicism, in the search for believing in the truth and pureness in doctrine, where many have been sacrificed.
I think i kinda like come to my senses liao. Thank GOD!!!!!
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@lee -
Brother, I praise God for that!
Please know that we — my brethren, sisters and I who warn so loudly — don’t do this for our own pride and to show that “we are right”, but that the Christian Church today is so inundated with so much falsehood that there’s a need for unpopular watchmen like us to cry out loud and warn, especially in these last days.
All glory goes to God, for only He can put the Truth into a man’s heart and save him.
Soli deo Gloria!
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